User talk:ElKevbo
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John Jay Article
[edit]Hey, I don't know how to leave a signature so sorry about that but saw your edit. Those were college majors (have provided a link to the correct source), I don't know if it's against WP policy to list the majors the college offers (if it does, please feel free to let me know or undo it and I apologize) but wanted to give you the heads up. Anyway, it is dedicated to Criminal Justice, hence the college's name (John Jay College of Criminal Justice). Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.41.108.33 (talk • contribs) 22:16, November 4, 2021 (UTC)
Eight Schools Association notability
[edit]Hello, I'm curious about whether the Eight Schools Association page meets the AfD criteria but I wanted to consult with someone else before potentially initiating an AfD. The member schools are highly notable, but I don't think there is a single outside source in the article supporting the association's notability and based on the article itself it looks like the ESA's organized efforts petered out around 2010. The one thing I can find on Google News is that in 2015, the Associated Press called the ESA a prep school equivalent of the Ivy League, which a number of other sources then incorporated. See AP in the Guardian (CBS has a dupe, NYDN has a dupe, Business Insider attributes this to the AP). Will you let me know what you think? Namelessposter (talk) 01:31, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing very much, either. There are some mentions in academic sources included in Google Scholar but they appear to be passing mentions and not the kind of substantive material we need for an article.
- Good luck! ElKevbo (talk) 03:59, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
- Hmm. I'm not sure I'm the right person to initiate this since I edit the ESA member schools' pages ... not infrequently. I will leave a notability maintenance tag on the page and see if someone a little more removed is willing to initiate. Namelessposter (talk) 04:13, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
- Opened a request for assistance at Talk:Eight Schools Association#Notability tag. Thanks for confirming that there's something to this. Namelessposter (talk) 04:23, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
- Hmm. I'm not sure I'm the right person to initiate this since I edit the ESA member schools' pages ... not infrequently. I will leave a notability maintenance tag on the page and see if someone a little more removed is willing to initiate. Namelessposter (talk) 04:13, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
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College of wooster edits
[edit]@ElKevbo wanted to see logic behind restoring edits to the notable alumni main page? Trying to make that page more accurate with the most relevant/notable alumni. Some of the ones listed there are little known or IMHO haven't had significant enough accomplishments to be on the selected alumni grouping. They are still listed on the notable people linked page.
New to editing so happy to hear any feedback/reasoning. FScot66 (talk) 16:08, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- Both of those people (a) are notable by Wikipedia standards as they have their own standalone articles and (b) appear to be genuinely related to the college. In the absence of a clear consensus among editors about what criteria are being used to determine which notable people are included in the article and which notable people are excluded, it seems reasonable to err on the side of inclusion. I am especially worried that some editors might want to exclude some notable alumni simply because they believe that those alumni paint the college in a negative light; that, of course, is not an acceptable reason to make any edits in Wikipedia.
- You are welcome to open a discussion in the article's Talk page to get input from other editors! You are also welcome to examine those specific articles and nominate one or both of them for deletion if you think that the subjects are not notable. ElKevbo (talk) 22:24, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
William & Mary
[edit]I'm curious why edits intended to make accurate the terminology used to refer to William & Mary were labeled as "historical revisionism?" In my edit, I kept all references to "the college" when the term was used to refer to William & Mary prior to the establishing of its graduate programs (when it was, in fact, a college) and only changed references to "the college" when the term was used to refer to William & Mary after the establishment of its graduate programs; the establishment of graduate programs made it a university. The Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education classifies William & Mary as a Doctoral University.
Too, William & Mary's official style guide lists "the university" as its preferred second reference, and "the university" is used by such reputable publications as The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/10/us/virginia-legacy-admissions-public-colleges-universities.html, https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/30/us/virginia-legacy-college-admissions.html) and The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2024/07/24/william-mary-coastal-marine-sciences/) as a second reference when discussing William & Mary. Jibunno (talk) 01:20, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- @Jibunno: At the time, W&M wasn't a university. I just wrote an article that discusses this in some more detail, but the first bachelor degrees weren't awarded by the college until 1772. ~ Pbritti (talk) 01:42, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- I only reverted references to "the college" when "the college" was used to refer to William & Mary after the establishment of graduate programs, which, by William & Mary's own admission, made it a university. Jibunno (talk) 01:44, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- @Jibunno: You conflated the Henrico College effort with William & Mary and referred to it as a university in contexts including the 17th century. In any case, it's still "the college" in many other reliable sources up to the present. ~ Pbritti (talk) 01:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- It's unclear what "conflate" means here—I can only see that I replaced "the college" with "William & Mary", not that I replaced "the college" with "the university"—but such individual errors could be corrected without the reversion of all edits.
- As for the reliable sources which still use "the college" to refer to William & Mary, I would be interested in seeing these. I know the New York Times and Washington Post use without deviation "the university" on second reference, and am curious to see sources of commensurate reputability use "the college." Jibunno (talk) 01:59, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- Your edit explicitly changed the article to say things like "The university educated American Presidents..." and "George Washington received his surveyor's license from the university in 1749..." There is nothing wrong at all with referring to the institution as a college in historical contexts when the institution was unmistakably a college and not a university. ElKevbo (talk) 02:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- I see. I appreciate your pointing this out and will avoid such errors in the future. As for references to William & Mary after its becoming a university: do you see any issues with this? Jibunno (talk) 02:33, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- Maybe - I'd have to see the specific context. Personally, I've often used "institution" in situations where "college" or "university" might be confusing for readers especially in situations like this one where the institution's name differs from its classification. ElKevbo (talk) 04:24, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- Ooo, I'm going to use that solution for an article that'll have exactly that problem. ~ Pbritti (talk) 05:56, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- Maybe - I'd have to see the specific context. Personally, I've often used "institution" in situations where "college" or "university" might be confusing for readers especially in situations like this one where the institution's name differs from its classification. ElKevbo (talk) 04:24, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- I see. I appreciate your pointing this out and will avoid such errors in the future. As for references to William & Mary after its becoming a university: do you see any issues with this? Jibunno (talk) 02:33, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- Your edit explicitly changed the article to say things like "The university educated American Presidents..." and "George Washington received his surveyor's license from the university in 1749..." There is nothing wrong at all with referring to the institution as a college in historical contexts when the institution was unmistakably a college and not a university. ElKevbo (talk) 02:30, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- @Jibunno: You conflated the Henrico College effort with William & Mary and referred to it as a university in contexts including the 17th century. In any case, it's still "the college" in many other reliable sources up to the present. ~ Pbritti (talk) 01:50, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- I only reverted references to "the college" when "the college" was used to refer to William & Mary after the establishment of graduate programs, which, by William & Mary's own admission, made it a university. Jibunno (talk) 01:44, 13 February 2025 (UTC)